Curse

Crotalus · Jul 07, 2006, 03:57 PM // 15:57

As many people who posted in the 1k/skill topic, you simply do not need 15k armor or rare skinned items. Collector items will work just as fine or sometimes better.

Except for buying skills, you simply do not money in this game. Kudos to Anet for busting these types of people who obsessively farm and act like a bot.

Beat_Go_Stick · Jul 07, 2006, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

i would go so far as to call that a WAG (wild ass guess) with nothing at all to substantiate it

Actually, if you consider the number of people in this thread alone, then look at the fact that gwonline, gwvault, and other boards all have similar threads, it makes the numbers much higher than they suggested with their "115 accounts unbanned!" comment. People are always saying that for every person who says something on a forum, there are a good number of people who share the same issues but don't bother to come create an account and post. It may have been a 'WAG', as you put it, but I seriously doubt it's very far off. To ban a couple hundred innocent people who post on this forum alone really makes me think that the number of innocents banned was likely more staggering than they would like us to know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sjeng

What's up with that? what does it mean? I've seen ppl say it online. Thought it was just a guy being annoying... ???

It means someone said the F-word

Quote:

Originally Posted by victo bei

Anet made this game basically they want EVERBODY TO BE POOR AND NOOB

The only thing "POOR" and "NOOB" here is that remark. Wealth is an illusion and being a good farmer doesn't make a good player. Stay on topic please

As for me, my account was unbanned last night with no email back. My friend, however, was judged guilty and remains banned. Funny thing is, I know him quite well IRL and I know he doesn't bot. He farms a lot but it's all him....hell, he goes home from work and plays Guild Wars all night.

Well, it was kind of a wake up call for him. I guess it's a good thing considering this game was dominating his life but it still kind of sucks to lose everything this way....

He hasn't decided whether or not pursue the matter further or just start playing something else while simultaneously reclaiming his social life. I'm urging him to let it go and start hanging out with me again *chuckle*

EDIT: Stay on topic please. -Swampgirl

Dwiggit · Jul 07, 2006, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Is the banning automated?

I know the code looks for certain patterns, etc. to determine if botting is occurring, but does the software give a recommendation for a ban, or just go ahead and place the ban?

I would hope that the code would just flag the potential offenders and print out a list for an actual person to review. Unfortunately, this whole fiasco has the appearance of an automated screw-up. If a person at least took a quick look at the logged "evidence" they could quickly see if a ban is justified, or at least know if the anti-bot code is working properly!

Understandably, ArenaNet want to automate the process as much as possible to reduce costs and quickly rid the game of economy-breakers. After seeing many problems in other online games, I'm sure they want to do the best they can and be on top of anti-botting technology. Hopefully these are just hiccups in the learning process.

I would suggest that an in-game notice be given to anyone prior to being banned. Maybe even a warning that your character has been identified as a potential bot (against EULA), is currently under scrutiny, and continued use in this manner will lead to a ban.

Dwig

Crotalus · Jul 07, 2006, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat_Go_Stick

Dude, you should really read a thread before making yourself look like a drooling moron. Many of us who were banned don't farm at all. I played an average of 4-5 hours a week for the past month and I was banned. Your comment reeks of ignorance

People are 100% honest on the internet? Dont be so naive.

Dwiggit · Jul 07, 2006, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat_Go_Stick

My friend, however, was judged guilty and remains banned. Funny thing is, I know him quite well IRL and I know he doesn't bot. He farms a lot but it's all him

Obviously, the ban was intended for bots, which is against the EULA.

But as far as I know, farming is NOT against the EULA, and therefore not a bannable offense!
(It may be discouraged with the anti-farming code, but still within terms of the EULA.)

Can someone double-check me on this?
If you find a part of the EULA that talks about farming, please post a clip.

Thanks,
Dwig

Beat_Go_Stick · Jul 07, 2006, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crotalus

People are 100% honest on the internet? Dont be so naive.

I'm sorry for the "flaminess" of my earlier comment. I don't want to turn this into anything lame. I just wanted to point out that A.Net banned hundreds of real people. Regardless of what those people do for fun, they do not deserve to be banned unless they are in violation of the EULA or TOS.

Honestly, I don't see why you would even care about bots unless you were concerned about the economy and you claim to not care about that at all. So tell me then how it's a good thing to ban legitimate players along with these bots that do nothing to you?

As someone who doesn't care a lick about the economy (since it really makes no difference to me), I can honestly say I don't care if they ever ban bots. I will certainly say that I don't think praising A.Net for banning innocent people just to get at the bots is the right way to go...

Anyway, this topic has been beat to death. I think I'm done here. Happy playing, all

Crotalus · Jul 07, 2006, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat_Go_Stick

Honestly, I don't see why you would even care about bots unless you were concerned about the economy and you claim to not care about that at all. So tell me then how it's a good thing to ban legitimate players along with these bots that do nothing to you?

A farmer with ample supply of skill points and enough gold to supply a small army of newbies could walk into Kaineng Center and unlock all non-elite skills for that character. Does Anet see this as a problem? I dont know but for me this cheapens my efforts to get a skill as would a PvPer who got insta-UAS. I think all those arguments for not having a UAS system applies to a farmer.

I also question how many people were being truthful about their game playing. Were they acting like bots enough to make Anet aware? or were they actually using a bot program but complained anyways? I am sure Anet didnt just walk into a district and start pulling name.

Carinae · Jul 07, 2006, 07:10 PM // 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat_Go_Stick

Actually, if you consider the number of people in this thread alone, then look at the fact that gwonline, gwvault, and other boards all have similar threads, it makes the numbers much higher than they suggested with their "115 accounts unbanned!" comment. People are always saying that for every person who says something on a forum, there are a good number of people who share the same issues but don't bother to come create an account and post. It may have been a 'WAG', as you put it, but I seriously doubt it's very far off. To ban a couple hundred innocent people who post on this forum alone really makes me think that the number of innocents banned was likely more staggering than they would like us to know.

I was not banned and I am NOT here to flame Anet, indeed, they are trying to fix the situation.

However, if there were 4000 bannings and 115 of those were restored within 1 day, then that STRONGLY implies there were a large number of false bannings.

Players might be on a break, might not be forum visitors, might not know what to do to restore their account. Many of those will simply walk away from the game.

When I first saw that 115 were restored in the first day, I though "OMG...that's *huge*....almost all of these aren't legitimate bannings!"

Consider that a 10% false hit ratio is attrocious, and they reached 3% on their first corrective action....this isn't good.

But, they ARE TRYING to fix it, so give them time and patience, as hard as that is to do.

Spiral · Jul 07, 2006, 07:18 PM // 19:18

My account was unbanned this morning.

THanks ANet, hope all other wrong bannings will be resolved shortly.

Loviatar · Jul 07, 2006, 07:19 PM // 19:19

also note several people are posting the same message on every board they can find so the total is not nearly as one post one time for the total count.

also the innocent ARE being cleared and Anet said it was adjusting the tripwires for the future.

sinican · Jul 07, 2006, 09:21 PM // 21:21

OK I farm... not because i enjoy doing it but simply because WE ARE FORCED TOO...

I want this green staff i have had to kill the same boss over 100 times now attempting to get it... i cant buy it from someone unless i have the money to pay them for it which requires me to farm more...

the game forces farming... it cant get away from that either because then the game would be bland...

I farm because it is necassary to obtain the items you need... i dont buy things i dont farm gold to often though farming gold is a heck of a lot easier than trying to farm a particular item...

this anti farming thing hurts me more than it hurts bots to be truthfull... i wish the code had more peramiters to determine farming... like an anti farming code based on item drops instead of how many times to have visited this or that area to kill this or that boss...

green items dont drop randomly anywhere... they drop from a speciifc boss(s) in a specific area(s)... no way around it...

I spend well over a week trying to get this channeling staff for my rit and i still havent gotten it... my wife is pissed because im not spending time with her... so i had to stop for a while... i even got the stupid farming message thing... i really dont think its fair considering i still havent gotten one and im still penalized making it even hard for me to get one now... yes i solo farm nothing like 50 green items dropping for the henchies...

so this whole bot code being based off of farming activities(if this is the case) is so BS since everyone needs to farm at some point whether it be an item/xp/gold/whatever...

lama_lord36 · Jul 07, 2006, 10:02 PM // 22:02

i almost don't dare to realy farm with all those bans now.

rurollin · Jul 07, 2006, 11:41 PM // 23:41

Banned since wed. Sick to my stomach for having to grind for luxon necro then kurzick warrior just to have my account banned after having this game for 2 months.

wascal · Jul 07, 2006, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Got banned on Tuesday, account restored on Friday.
I`m not happy that hundreds of honest players have had blocks placed on their accounts based on the word of a moderator, Ill tell you what happened in my case so you might better understand

I`m bored standing in house zu heltzer while I am trying to recruit new members for the guild and new guilds for the alliance, so I start to run a few laps up the stairs across the bridge down the stairs and repeat, here is what the GM said after I submitted my support ticket.

"Hello,

Thank you for contacting the Guild Wars customer support team. A game moderator did witness automated behaviour in game while observing your character, this indicated the use of an automated third-party program, which is why we closed the account. In this case, as you are a one-time offender, we will remove the ban. However, please be aware that if we notice similar behaviour in the future, we will have to close your account permanently. Please allow 24 hours for this to take effect.

Please feel free to contact the support team again if you encounter any other problems.

Kind regards, "

Let me make it perfectly clear that I DO NOT!! and have NEVER!! used a third party program with GW, some moron moderator saw me running laps and decided I was a bot, he didnt even whisper me and couldnt even be bothered to notice the spam I was shouting out looking for new members, I dont like this whole guilty untill proven innocent attitude these GM`s have and I am writing a letter to NC Soft head office demanding an explanation and apology.

WLlama · Jul 08, 2006, 12:52 AM // 00:52

You may notice that one of the previous ANet responses had the exact same wording. It is possible that it had nothing to do with your actions in HzH and is instead due to either 1) previous bot-like activities or 2) a canned response ANet is now sending to everyone in hope of discouraging any future bot-like activities from erroneously banned members.

wascal · Jul 08, 2006, 01:28 AM // 01:28

Quote:

You may notice that one of the previous ANet responses had the exact same wording. It is possible that it had nothing to do with your actions in HzH and is instead due to either 1) previous bot-like activities or 2) a canned response ANet is now sending to everyone in hope of discouraging any future bot-like activities from erroneously banned members.

Im interested to know what you mean by bot-like activity, care to explain?

WLlama · Jul 08, 2006, 01:39 AM // 01:39

Well, given that ANet doesn't publish their bot finding criteria (with good reason, I might add) I can only make conjectures like everyone else on this thread. The most incriminating of course would be repetitive actions. I dunno how many times you ran laps in HzH but I have my doubts about whether this is what they were talking about. I'm sure most bots they target actually do something useful.

My other thoughts:
- Farming same area with same character in the same manner for hours on end
- Spamming trade (especially if unresponsive to PMs)
- Buidling up large sums of money/high-end items rapidly (especially if followed by a sharp decrease and rapid rebuild)
- Repetitive/rapid key strokes

Those are the ones that come to mind at the moment but I'm sure there are plenty more. I think people are losing focus of the fact that the last bot ban was announced around May 26 so plenty of time has passed to collect evidence. The banning may not necessarily be due to what occurred just before termination.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Jul 08, 2006, 01:46 AM // 01:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crotalus

Except for buying skills, you simply do not money in this game. Kudos to Anet for busting these types of people who obsessively farm and act like a bot.

And since when has farming been a banneable offense?

Besides, not everyone (including me) that was unfairly banned is a habitual farmer. And yes not everyone tells the freaking truth. Thanks for stating that. But the thing is, that not everyone lies all the time either. There ARE innocent people that got banned. How else are so many getting unbanned so quickly?

Loviatar · Jul 08, 2006, 01:55 AM // 01:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by wascal

I`m bored standing in house zu heltzer while I am trying to recruit new members for the guild and new guilds for the alliance, so I start to run a few laps up the stairs across the bridge down the stairs and repeat, here is what the GM said after I submitted my support ticket.

.

no your laps were not it

here is some of your answer in an interview while they were gathering data to use later. (late last year)

please note this is ongoing

Quote:

Selling in-game items for cash is clearly against the terms of service, and engaging in any farming or storage activity that assists other people in selling in-game items for cash is also against the terms of service. If you're farming gold or items for someone who sells them for cash, you need to stop now. We are currently gathering data, and when we take action it will be to close entire networks of accounts at once: those used for farming, those used for storage, and those used for distribution.

as for botlike activity here is it straight grom ANET

Quote:

The third issue, which is quickly becoming the biggest threat to the game’s economy, is companies that farm gold and items professionally and sell them for real-life cash. These companies hire large teams of people, often working in sweatshop-like conditions for very little pay, to play Guild Wars for many hours a day in order to rake in gold and items. The workers aren’t bots but they farm gold in similar ways, using very specific character builds to kill very specific monsters, running the same path and killing the same monsters hundreds of times each day, doing whatever exact sequence of actions their employer has determined is currently the most effective way to earn a lot of gold per hour. They then turn over what they’ve farmed to their employer, who sells the gold and items to other players for cash.

WLlama · Jul 08, 2006, 02:05 AM // 02:05

Just as a note, Loviatar's post reminded me of something:

Quote:

Selling in-game items for cash is clearly against the terms of service

If you trade a large amount of stuff (especially with high values) for no or little return, that may send up a flag. Example: Hmm...Zodiac sword traded for nothing to a non-guildie...real world cash?